OfflineGreat ice is fun to watch!
25 seconds & 4-5 feet of curl.
Amazing what can be accomplished with a new floor, a great crew, and all the latest high tech tools.
Of course the experience and knowledge also have to be acknowledged.
Hats off to you guys.
Will you share the knowledge, or is it a trade secret?? [Just kidding.. ... .. sort of.]
Havanicedayea! Ian
we share most things.what would you like to know.Thanks for the nice comment as you all know we get pooped on enough .
How would you do it in a three sheet, wooden quonset style rink with no dehume, no nipper, a 4' blade, no assistants, and a leaking brine system?
Oh yeah, and keep it that way for five months...[LOL]
... I'll get the info on sanding rocks from Fred Veale.. ... ..
[those rocks are sanded, aren't they?]
It really is good to see what can be done.
Thanks, Ian
That's easy!
Hire some assistants, fix the brine system, then knock the building down and build a new one!
By next season you'll be right as rain!
Hire???! Good idea, but.. ... .. for now I'll have to keep looking for volunteers.
Knocking down the building and starting over may become the more likely option depending on what they find when they go under the sheeting to examine the roof this summer...!
The brine system will be done in any case if for no other reason than that it impacts the skating arena.
My point about the quality of the ice was that it is not difficult to make good ice if it only has to last for a week or two. After that there are a whole bunch of other things that come into play as the ice ages.
When we talk about championship arena ice and club ice we are talking apples and oranges.
You do realise I was joking :-)
I do... <(:-)>
The money tree is just a little late blooming.
The plant is off...
Gotta go make sure water still flows downhill.
How come things don't put themselves away?
Take me seriously at your own peril!
Havan ice day, eh!
that sounds like fun.does your roof not leak as well
It does, actually, but only behind the hacks in one corner, and then only when it thaws or rains. So it's not too bad!
Seriously though, how do you account for the great speed you have been able to get?
The ice looks great. Nice and crisp and curling good too. It must be that tipping floor to get that quick ice ;)
Hey Montie,
Great job on the ice at the Brier! Mark Shurek called me and tells me that he is working on bringing those rocks to Brooks this November for the Cactus Pheasant Classic. Were you impressed with them?
I hope we can talk you into helping us out for the best field to ever hit the ice! (bring Cranky with you). We expect the top 24 teams in the world to be there. Now we just have to figure out who they are... Any ideas?? Give us your dream line up.
www.pheasantclassic.com
Heard cranky was looking to work in the Oil Fields. Can't imagine he'd have time to do both.
Great ice, pampered rocks...
Now every club curler in the country expects the same almost ideal conditions; for five months in a row.
Great.. ... ..
Thanks, eh! [LOL]
Jock
PS: good job with the air temp.
So whats up with the picks during the Brier final? All we know is what the CBC commentators coughed up. Whats the inside scooop?
I just love all the bashing that goes on in the hack when maybe and I say maybe anyone of you have been the head guy at a national or international event? If you have you know whats going on if you havent you cause a bunch of bull. These guys work there butts off and 99% of the people do not even have a clue to whats going on?
Its only fricken frozen water right?????? Daaaaaaaa thats what I thought.
Slide on............:)
you all know how morris throws. he gets on his knees and sits there for a few seconds. long enough to create a flat spot. i am not saying he is the reason there were picks but anyone who kept a body part on the ice is going to make them. kudos to the ice men. great job. it was fun to watch and i really hope you don't get any heat for the unfortunate picks that happened in the final.
Matt Ham
For all that don't think picks come from hands or knee's, try it. Put your knee's or hands on the ice and leave them for....say 15 seconds. Have a look, a close look. Where the fingers were it will leave finger prints and water will form around the edges, throw a rock over it and see what happens. Now kneel on the ice for 15 seconds, they might not melt in but it will leave a warm spot that has no pebble, throw a rock over this spot. I will say from experince that half of the time it will take off from it's normal path. I have done this experiment with club curlers and they have clued in after that. Competitive curlers on the other hand...they will just blame the icemaker, it is not their fault! as the ice is made.............see you all next year.
The majority of picks come from gripper prints. Hand and knee prints are never an issue at this level. Only an inexperienced curler will leave their hands or knees on the ice for 15 seconds as you mentioned, and the only time I've ever noticed this is with fairly non-competitive curlers who don't know any better. Morris, Menard et al remain on the ice for roughly 5 seconds after they've thrown a rock and if you actually look at the ice after they've thrown there is no evidence that any body part was on the ice, trust me I played against them both at the brier. For Glenn and company to make these accusations was either an attempt to get the Martin team off their game or a weak excuse for not cleaning/managing the ice properly. The ice makers at this year's brier did a great job using sticky tack for the players to step on before each game to eliminate most of the debris on their shoes. However, when a player's feet heats up during a game it is inevitable that the heat will be transferred through the shoe and will result in a gripper print. When a rock travels over these 'prints', unless the area has been cleaned properly, there is a chance that it will slightly change the direction that the rock is travelling.
I find it strange that the Ontario lead Craig Savill mentioned in an article afterwards that he thought Morris might have been the culprit for the picks on the ice. They played together for about ten years and this never seemed to be an issue for them and now all of a sudden the Howard team breaks this out during a national final on TV. I definitely lost a little respect for a couple of guys on that Howard team for their antics in the final.
I agree with matt. those flat spots can decide whether you win or lose a game, they won't always, but when there's a key shot that fudges from a flat spot, it sucks.
Well, you did it!
Congratulations.
The ice kept its curl almost perfectly, for ten days.
The speed was great and consistent all week.
If it weren't for all those spectators and curlers, and air conditioners, the ice would probably have been perfect!
Now if the rest of us could just figure out how to make ice like that last for five months in a small town shed.. ... ..
...and then there are the rocks, but we can discuss them later.
Havan ice day eh! Jock
Hello all
I have read the above thread and would like to comment on the on the Excellent ice that was provided for the curlers all week. The final game may or may not been a little soft but that can happen in an event final. EH curler above metioned gripper prints. I would like to elaborate on this a little. When the ring under a rock appeared in the 4th or 5th end of the final we know the air was very warm and the ice could be a little on the warm side but still very playable. The rock starts to take the temp of the air and migrates down to the ice. I remember in the Otawwa Brier many years ago there was a depression left by one stones that sat for 15 min. In my experience the grippers now are quite soft for maxium grip. When these slide across the ice and then stop they quickly freze and leave a deposit of dirt and bits of rubber. A player with colder feet this is less evident. A player with large hotter feet leave marks all the way down the sheet. The guys were obviously sweating during the final because of increased air temp and this would also allow for warmer feet thus possibly leaving more than normal gripper marks. When a rocks moves over these marks the rock just changes direction slightly but for these guys any misdirection is disastrous. Even cleaning the ice with light broom pressure is futile because the broom may only get a small portion of the rubber and then just roll under the broom and make the rock pick later down the sheet. I gusess what I am thinking is the heat that is near the gripper comes from the body not the ice. What if the grippers were insulated so the heat transfer would be reduced. the only heat that would be generated is from the friction from the ice. Some might argue that all of the heat is from the friction on the ice. If so then manufactures should think of a material that is a little more stable and not shed so much maybe at the expense of a little less grip.
I find it interesting that years ago it was corn and then it was hair and now the curling is more precise and the only thing that leaves debris are the grippers and everything they come in contact with. To be fair ice is generally warmer now than 20 years ago but we are constantly demanding more perfect conditions. Its a shame that some games are decided on shots gone bad from something other than our wrists but that's curling and it makes is a great sport with many variables. Instead of insulating my handles I will try my insulating my gripper. I experience these gripper marks more than most because we tend to carry ice temp a little warmer than most. I must tell you that with improved education on replacing your grippers yearly we are on the right track.
Just some thoughts
Icebreaker
May the ice be with you always
Thanks for your insights, experiences & memories.
I can relate to all you have said about footprints etc. A pair of good insoles in the boot may provide all the insulation one needs; besides who wants cold feet anyway?
Let's keep things in perspective. A curling sheet is not a billiards table, and it is not reasonable to expect anyone to be able to make ice as stable as marble or slate. Ice, being made of water, changes constantly. It's texture and density /hardness, keeness and swing is never the same for more than a few minutes, even when there is no debris on it. It can be better controlled in a modern arena with a good crew, but it is still at the mercy of the environment and the curlers.
Whether an ice-flaw is caused by corn-straw, gravel, dust, feathers, bird dung, brush hairs, gripper rubber, sweat drops, clothing lint, candy wrappers or imagination the bottom line is that the last time a curler will see clean ice is at the moment he /she steps onto a freshly prepped sheet.
That's part of what makes curling the game it is.
As for those who allow their warm body parts to rest stationary on the cold ice, the solution is for the ice tech, a snarky old man at the best of times, to whack them lightly on the offending body part with a broom handle and to tell them not to do that any more. I did this for a couple of weeks last year, and the problem almost completely went away as the word got out. There was some whining and grumbling, but it worked. There was very little of it this year. Paw printing will probably come back again, and the same solution will work again. In the meantime education and the iceman's rasty reputation will have to do.
Jock